Some weeks ago, a colleague of mine spotted a Tesla Model S in the wild. It sparked a debate because he is already driving a Chevy Volt, and I'm in the camp of not being willing to make concessions in order to own an electric car.
The problems are multiple, as I see it. For less than $20,000 I can buy a turbodiesel VW that can easily do 700 or more miles on a tank, and at the end of that range, be refilled in 3 minutes and do another 700 miles. Or for $70,000 I can buy a Model S that - as much as Tesla don't want it to be, is a fashion-statement boutique car. Yes it's a good commuter car and yes it's good for use around town or other low-mileage jaunts, but would you really blow that much money on a commuter-scooter?
Tesla make interesting claims about their range but again you're making concessions to get to that range. IF you only have one person in the car, IF the weather is just right, IF there are no traffic jams, IF you don't use the radio, IF you're not driving at night with the lights on, IF you can find a charging station, IF it has a fast charger, IF you can make it there in the first place and IF you have an hour to waste recharging it. IF you don't want to travel further than 250 miles. IF you don't mind turning AC or heating off when you're running out of range. IF, IF, IF. Too many concessions.
The Tesla S controversy sparked by the NYT reporter in February this year is the tip of the iceberg. Tesla told the reporter to drive a very specific route under very specific conditions. He didn't - he deviated a little - as you might do when you're driving - and the weather didn't cooperate (it wasn't "optimal" for the car). The reporter ended up stranded. Motor Trend's long term Model S struggles to get 235 miles to a charge - considerably shorter than the 300 mile range it's quoted as having. These are known problems with batteries and have been for decades, nay centuries. Altering the load, duration of load, or environmental conditions all have big impacts on battery life. In a regular car I don't need to worry about running out of range because I'm running the heater or the A/C .....
For electric cars to be acceptable to the masses, they need to overcome the biggest single problem - recharging. Sure you can pay money and have a charging station put in at home and yes you need to remember to plug it in every night. But when you're out and about, you will need to charge it at some point and that's where the problems start. Nobody has an hour to spare nowadays - least of all hanging around some sketchy filling station. Those are the last places you want to spend any time (it's why pay-at-the-pump is such a blessing. You can fill up without ever having to go inside the filling station). But with an electric car, you're destined to be stranded at a filling station for at least 30 minutes - more if you need a full charge or if the few charging points that they have are already occupied. There have been proven technology demos of cars with swappable battery packs (www.betterplace.com) - that's an awesome solution because you drive up, the robot changes the spent battery pack for a charged one, and you drive off. The problem there is that none of the car manufacturers can agree on a standard battery pack so that doesn't look like it's going to go anywhere.
Some proponents of pure electric cars argue that companies like Tesla will put in free charging stations. They won't. Remember the old adage about something seeming to good to be true? Why would Tesla motors eat the (considerable) cost of charging all their customer's cars for free? They're a publicly traded company, meaning they're run for the benefit of the shareholders, meaning you're not ever going to get anything out of them for free. Don't kid yourself. Elon Musk's primary goal is not to make you feel good - Tesla are in the business of keeping their shareholders and hedge funds happy (which it seems they do partly by reporting VINs registered rather than numbers of vehicles sold - Tesla's claimed 4,750 sales figure for Q1 2013 actually turned out to be 3,125 in reality). Look to Europe if you want to see the electric car charging future. Charging posts in parking lots and roadside stalls, that you either pay a monthly subscription to use, or simply swipe your credit card through to use them. Trust me - it's not free now, and it'll never be free in the future.
Electric car manufacturers are very keen (and proud) to point out that their vehicles 'zero emissions'. That's PR doublespeak. No, your car itself doesn't emit any pollutants, but the car is absolutely not 'zero emissions'. It needs charging, right? So a power station, somewhere, is creating electricity to charge the car. In the US that means either coal or oil (because people here are frightened of nuclear, and we have no federal renewable energy policy to speak of). So whilst your car might not be emitting pollutants locally, you are still contributing to the plume of unpleasantness that comes out of the smokestacks of power stations. There is one caveat though - if you're smart enough to have solar panels or a wind farm on your property, and that power is used to charge your car, then and only then can you properly be in smug mode about zero emissions.
Speaking of the electricity generating and distribution infrastructure, think about this for a moment. Right now we suffer rolling blackouts and a crumbling system of decades-old power plants and HV lines. Imagine that now we add all the extra demand to that system to charge millions of electric vehicles. How's that going to work out? What happens when you have a days-long power cut - that's not uncommon even in America. Your car is dead, you have no electricity to charge it - you're screwed. Protagonists will point out that "millions of electric vehicles" aren't suddenly going to appear overnight, and that as they gradually do take to the roads, the power infrastructure will grow to meet demand. Reality check; in the last ten years, the US hasn't built many (if any) new power stations. We have, however shut a few down. We haven't had a new nuclear station here since 1979! Demand is up, supply is down. How's that going to change just because people are now driving electric vehicles? If you don't think this is an issue, again look to Europe. Barely anyone has electric cars in the UK yet now the government want to mandate "smart" home appliances that can be remotely turned off when peak demand is too high - Mandatory remote appliance control.
The only realistic short-term solution to electric cars is to have some other mechanism in the car of supporting the electric load. Hydrogen fuel cells or small petrol or diesel generators are the best bet. But they need to be uncoupled completely from the drivetrain so that the only function they perform is battery charging. Volvo's 2007 ReCharge technology demonstrator was the best option - four in-wheel motors and a diesel generator. It removed all the complexity of the gearbox and transmission (and for the most part, the brakes too) which in turn made the car considerably lighter.
My views on electric cars tar me with the brush of being a luddite to a lot of people. I prefer to think of myself as a realist. I'd buy a diesel-electric vehicle in a heartbeat as long as it was normally priced. But nobody makes one and nobody is planning one. Given that premise, I have actually investigated the all-electric Fiat 500 and all-electric Ford Focus as in-town commuters (because I have a real car for real-world stuff) but two things put me off - (1) you can't easily buy them in America (virtually zero dealer inventory) and (2) the price is an absolute joke - $43,000 for a Ford Focus with less an 80 mile range? Are you bloody kidding me?
Pure-electric vehicles, whilst they may be our future, are currently still an extremely niche market for (probably) rich owners who don't mind owning compromised vehicles. Until they're down to normal prices, with a full infrastructure of charging stations or battery-swap stations, with an upgraded national power supply grid, they'll continue to be the wet dream of hedge funds and investment bankers. Which is odd because electric cars have been available to the mass market for 7 years now and we're still waiting for the prices to come down.....
Monday, May 27, 2013
Monday, May 20, 2013
Guest post : Bilstein shock technology
Bilstein is a well know name when it comes to shocks and performance vehicles, but they don't stop there. They make many different series that benefit all different types of vehicles. They make a Heavy Duty shock for towing vehicles and trucks, a series of shocks specifically for motorhomes, and several performance shocks for off-road racing and lifted vehicles. Most significantly they have revolutionized what shocks and suspension components can offer for sports vehicles. Bilstein has something unique that sets their shocks apart from the rest of the manufacturers; they were the pioneers of the Monotube design. This design offers great qualities that offer a long lasting and high quality shock.
It is important to understand the difference between a standard twin tube shock and Bilstein's Monotube shock in order to really grasp all of the benefits. Twin tube shocks have the outer reservoir and then another tube inside that is the "working cylinder". The working cylinder contains the dividing piston and this is where the dampening and function happens. The dividing piston is small in a twin tube design and allows for air bubbles to enter the oil, causing foaming. Foaming in a shock leads to decreased dampening force and performance. This design also traps heat in the shock body leading to a shortened lifespan. In a Monotube design heat is able to transfer from the oil to outer surface of the shock making it function more efficiently. The nitrogen in the shock is separated from the oil by a dividing piston that is 228% larger than a twin tubes piston, and pressure from the gas keeps the oil from foaming. This process results in a longer life for the shock as well as a better ride and more control over the vehicle.
Bilstein makes several series designed just for performance vehicles. They have the B8 Series shock, B12 Series that has a Pro Kit and Sportline, B14 PSS and B16 PSS9/PSS10. The B8 Series is a lowering shock or strut that features the monotube gas design and a sport setting for added comfort. With the addition of the B8 shocks you will have improved vehicle handling and ride comfort. These are designed in the same fashion as their HD shocks, but have a shorter internal bumper to accommodate lower springs without sacrificing safety. This series is designed to perform well in all weather conditions, so you never have to worry about losing control of your vehicle.
The B12 Series consists of two different choices; you have the Pro-Kit and the Sportline. Both of these shocks bring you a Monotube design, and inverted tube technology. The inverted tube will abolish rod flex and improve stability. The inverted design will also keep the shock cooler, reducing wear and increasing durability. These are coil over shocks fitted with Eibach progressive rate springs. They have a professional cornering system built in and provide a fast response time. The difference between the two kits is that the Pro-Kit lowers your vehicle up to 40mm while the Sportline will lower it up to 50mm. The B14 PSS Suspension system is a ride height adjustable system. This shock comes with Bilstein's signature Monotube Gas Pressure technology and an adjustable range between of 20mm; this will allow you to lower your vehicle from 30-50mm. This systems round thread technology, aluminum spring seat and lock nut allows you to adjust the ride height easily to change the look of your vehicle without having to remove the suspension. The addition of B14's also brings improved ride handling and performance.
The B16 PSS9/PSS10 System is a "race inspired" suspension system with manually adjustable damping settings. You can choose from either 9 or 10 stage compression and rebound settings. This allows for an easy transition from comfortable ride to a racing situation without having to remove anything from the vehicle. The monotube shock absorbers can adjust your ride height from 30mm-50mm lower and also comes with a progressive rate spring to ensure ultimate ride handling.
Bilstein has a shock for every vehicle but when it comes to sport and performance cars they really hit the mark. They have gone above and beyond to create performance suspension systems that will give you the best handling characteristics and complete control over the look and feel of your car. Having a durable, high performing shock not only increases ride comfort and handling but also increases the vehicles safety level.
It is important to understand the difference between a standard twin tube shock and Bilstein's Monotube shock in order to really grasp all of the benefits. Twin tube shocks have the outer reservoir and then another tube inside that is the "working cylinder". The working cylinder contains the dividing piston and this is where the dampening and function happens. The dividing piston is small in a twin tube design and allows for air bubbles to enter the oil, causing foaming. Foaming in a shock leads to decreased dampening force and performance. This design also traps heat in the shock body leading to a shortened lifespan. In a Monotube design heat is able to transfer from the oil to outer surface of the shock making it function more efficiently. The nitrogen in the shock is separated from the oil by a dividing piston that is 228% larger than a twin tubes piston, and pressure from the gas keeps the oil from foaming. This process results in a longer life for the shock as well as a better ride and more control over the vehicle.
Bilstein makes several series designed just for performance vehicles. They have the B8 Series shock, B12 Series that has a Pro Kit and Sportline, B14 PSS and B16 PSS9/PSS10. The B8 Series is a lowering shock or strut that features the monotube gas design and a sport setting for added comfort. With the addition of the B8 shocks you will have improved vehicle handling and ride comfort. These are designed in the same fashion as their HD shocks, but have a shorter internal bumper to accommodate lower springs without sacrificing safety. This series is designed to perform well in all weather conditions, so you never have to worry about losing control of your vehicle.
The B12 Series consists of two different choices; you have the Pro-Kit and the Sportline. Both of these shocks bring you a Monotube design, and inverted tube technology. The inverted tube will abolish rod flex and improve stability. The inverted design will also keep the shock cooler, reducing wear and increasing durability. These are coil over shocks fitted with Eibach progressive rate springs. They have a professional cornering system built in and provide a fast response time. The difference between the two kits is that the Pro-Kit lowers your vehicle up to 40mm while the Sportline will lower it up to 50mm. The B14 PSS Suspension system is a ride height adjustable system. This shock comes with Bilstein's signature Monotube Gas Pressure technology and an adjustable range between of 20mm; this will allow you to lower your vehicle from 30-50mm. This systems round thread technology, aluminum spring seat and lock nut allows you to adjust the ride height easily to change the look of your vehicle without having to remove the suspension. The addition of B14's also brings improved ride handling and performance.
The B16 PSS9/PSS10 System is a "race inspired" suspension system with manually adjustable damping settings. You can choose from either 9 or 10 stage compression and rebound settings. This allows for an easy transition from comfortable ride to a racing situation without having to remove anything from the vehicle. The monotube shock absorbers can adjust your ride height from 30mm-50mm lower and also comes with a progressive rate spring to ensure ultimate ride handling.
Bilstein has a shock for every vehicle but when it comes to sport and performance cars they really hit the mark. They have gone above and beyond to create performance suspension systems that will give you the best handling characteristics and complete control over the look and feel of your car. Having a durable, high performing shock not only increases ride comfort and handling but also increases the vehicles safety level.
Monday, May 13, 2013
Are consumers afraid of turbos?
A colleague of mine pointed something out recently that I'd not noticed. You rarely see "turbo" being advertised for vehicles over here (the U.S), even on engines that actually have them. Ford use the term "Ecoboost". Mazda use the term "SkyActiv". The VW group always use "TSi" and "TDi" but never really expand on the "T". Only Hyundai seem to be particular up front about, going so far as to use the 'Turbo' moniker on their Veloster.
This led me to wonder why this is. Back in the bad old days, turbos could be unreliable beasts, badly tuned with too much boost from the factory, they were heavy, would burn through oil and bearings fairly quickly and made a lovely / horrible noise depending on your point of view. They fell out of favour in the mid 80's in America with the market preferring displacement over aspiration. V6 and V8 engines became more commonplace along with the terrible gas mileage they provided. At the time, petrol was cheap and displacement was the easiest way to get increase power.
Over in Europe and Japan, turbo engines never really went out of favour. Hot hatches were frequently sold factory-fresh with turbos that did a great job of bringing a smile to the driver's faces as well as providing a modest increase in fuel economy. Every car had a boost gauge (Saab put theirs front and centre), the turbo whine, induction roar and dump valve sounds were all allowed to echo through the engine bay and passenger cabin and all was well. For whatever reason though, the average man-in-the-street in the US was somehow afraid of turbos.
Cut to today when people are now happily driving around in turbo-engined cars, and I wonder if it's because they don't realise it. As I said above, you don't often see 'turbo' in the literature for the car. Instead it's masked with phrases like 'advanced engine technology' (turbos aren't that advanced, or new). Induction roar is quieted with airboxes and noise-deadening. Turbo whine is suppressed by putting the turbo low down at the front of the engine, away from the driver, and dump valves are soft-opening, quiet little affairs designed to be as inoffensive as possible. That's if they're present at all. Most factory turbos are managed so they never produce enough pressure to require a dump valve.
Why? Why is this? Why aren't we celebrating amazing technology like variable vanes and nested twin turbo systems that spool up at different exhaust pressures? Porsche don't mind advertising variable-vane turbos but then they're not really targeting the average driver. I just think we should embrace things like this and not be afraid of it. Put boost gauges back in the cars, let the drivers hear their engines going about their business. There's really nothing to be afraid of.
This led me to wonder why this is. Back in the bad old days, turbos could be unreliable beasts, badly tuned with too much boost from the factory, they were heavy, would burn through oil and bearings fairly quickly and made a lovely / horrible noise depending on your point of view. They fell out of favour in the mid 80's in America with the market preferring displacement over aspiration. V6 and V8 engines became more commonplace along with the terrible gas mileage they provided. At the time, petrol was cheap and displacement was the easiest way to get increase power.
Over in Europe and Japan, turbo engines never really went out of favour. Hot hatches were frequently sold factory-fresh with turbos that did a great job of bringing a smile to the driver's faces as well as providing a modest increase in fuel economy. Every car had a boost gauge (Saab put theirs front and centre), the turbo whine, induction roar and dump valve sounds were all allowed to echo through the engine bay and passenger cabin and all was well. For whatever reason though, the average man-in-the-street in the US was somehow afraid of turbos.
Cut to today when people are now happily driving around in turbo-engined cars, and I wonder if it's because they don't realise it. As I said above, you don't often see 'turbo' in the literature for the car. Instead it's masked with phrases like 'advanced engine technology' (turbos aren't that advanced, or new). Induction roar is quieted with airboxes and noise-deadening. Turbo whine is suppressed by putting the turbo low down at the front of the engine, away from the driver, and dump valves are soft-opening, quiet little affairs designed to be as inoffensive as possible. That's if they're present at all. Most factory turbos are managed so they never produce enough pressure to require a dump valve.
Why? Why is this? Why aren't we celebrating amazing technology like variable vanes and nested twin turbo systems that spool up at different exhaust pressures? Porsche don't mind advertising variable-vane turbos but then they're not really targeting the average driver. I just think we should embrace things like this and not be afraid of it. Put boost gauges back in the cars, let the drivers hear their engines going about their business. There's really nothing to be afraid of.
Monday, May 6, 2013
Guest post : 30 years of CD players - history of in-car entertainment
Anything people can enjoy on the sofa, they want to have on the move. This desire has fuelled rapid innovation in in-car entertainment for almost 100 years! Read on for a breakdown of in-car entertainment milestones and a look to the gadgets and gizmos of the future. Is the CD player really on its way out?
A real luxury
The topic of who made the first car radio for personal use is a hot debate but it was the Galvin brothers that gave us the first commercial in-car radio in 1930. It cost a wallet-crushing $130. Not much you say? Well, you be the judge of that when you find out that a Ford Model A Deluxe Coupe only came in at $540. If you look at the kind of car finance deals on offer for top models like MINI today, can you imagine dropping a third of the total value on a radio? That’s one for real music lovers...
Music on demand
AM/FM radio appeared during the ‘50s but it was Chrysler who spotted a gap in the market. They put a 7” record player in their high-end models so people could play proprietary records. Ah the luxury of choice!
The rise and fall of the 8-track
The eight-track tape never had it easy. Both Ford and Motorola put players in their cars during 1965 and the format saw a massive boom. However, after a decade of people getting annoyed with jammed decks and dirty tape, it was discontinued and never seen again...
The magic of a mixtape
In-car entertainment exploded in the mid-70s with the humble cassette tape. Suddenly big brands like Alpine and Pioneer were making stereos for cars and it was big business indeed.
German engineering
Sony pipped Becker to the post for in-dash CD players a year before, but it was the German company that struck gold with the first model to be installed in the factory during 1985. So began the reign of the CD...and long it was...
Apple-tastic
It was the emergence of MP3 players and the mighty iPod at the turn of the millennium that started killing CDs. Plenty of cars still come with CD players as standard but this is the time when big brands will phase them out in favour of digital docks and even app-based systems.
A taste of things to come...
In-car entertainment will develop faster in the next 5 years than ever before. Smart-phones will power app-based systems so drivers can benefit from voice-activated technology, wireless chargers, infotainment tablets and much more access to the music they want.
But the real game-changer will be augmented reality windscreens that will turn your driver’s view into something that looks like it came from a computer game... Get ready.
A real luxury
The topic of who made the first car radio for personal use is a hot debate but it was the Galvin brothers that gave us the first commercial in-car radio in 1930. It cost a wallet-crushing $130. Not much you say? Well, you be the judge of that when you find out that a Ford Model A Deluxe Coupe only came in at $540. If you look at the kind of car finance deals on offer for top models like MINI today, can you imagine dropping a third of the total value on a radio? That’s one for real music lovers...
Music on demand
AM/FM radio appeared during the ‘50s but it was Chrysler who spotted a gap in the market. They put a 7” record player in their high-end models so people could play proprietary records. Ah the luxury of choice!
The rise and fall of the 8-track
The eight-track tape never had it easy. Both Ford and Motorola put players in their cars during 1965 and the format saw a massive boom. However, after a decade of people getting annoyed with jammed decks and dirty tape, it was discontinued and never seen again...
The magic of a mixtape
In-car entertainment exploded in the mid-70s with the humble cassette tape. Suddenly big brands like Alpine and Pioneer were making stereos for cars and it was big business indeed.
German engineering
Sony pipped Becker to the post for in-dash CD players a year before, but it was the German company that struck gold with the first model to be installed in the factory during 1985. So began the reign of the CD...and long it was...
Apple-tastic
It was the emergence of MP3 players and the mighty iPod at the turn of the millennium that started killing CDs. Plenty of cars still come with CD players as standard but this is the time when big brands will phase them out in favour of digital docks and even app-based systems.
A taste of things to come...
In-car entertainment will develop faster in the next 5 years than ever before. Smart-phones will power app-based systems so drivers can benefit from voice-activated technology, wireless chargers, infotainment tablets and much more access to the music they want.
But the real game-changer will be augmented reality windscreens that will turn your driver’s view into something that looks like it came from a computer game... Get ready.
Monday, April 29, 2013
Car Shopping Part 3
This week I just wanted to finish off the car buying tale. If you followed the previous two posts you'll know we ended up with a custom build and got the dealer down to a reasonable price. If you do order a custom build, you'll end up with something that - if you're a car nerd - is fascinating. It's the factory build sheet.
The build sheet is the extremely verbose version of what you chose on the website or at the dealer when configuring your car. So for example you might have chosen a winter package that had heated seats. On the build sheet, that will be broken down into assembly codes for all the components that go into that package - the seats, controls, wiring loom - everything. Right at the bottom of the sheet - in some cases - will be a huge barcode. This has no relevance to you as a buyer, but it's the code that identifies your car to the factory.
Once the time comes for your vehicle to enter production, the factory has a copy of the build sheet attached to the engine, suspension parts, chassis (if there is a chassis) and all the other components. At each station on the production line, the barcode gets scanned and the assembly worker knows exactly what has to go into the car in front of them at their station. The robots know if bodywork needs to be cut differently, or doors needs to be changed (3 door vs 5 door etc) and the paint shop knows to prepare a set of body panels in your chosen colour. Eventually all the different parts of the car come together in final assembly and if everything worked, all the barcodes match up and they end up with a single, finished car, containing everything that was on the original build sheet.
From that point forwards, it goes through engine testing, soak testing and QA, then gets shipped (in my case, literally) to your dealer. For stuff that comes across the Atlantic to the US, there are dealer prep facilities in the ports that check the vehicles over before they get loaded on to road transporters. Cosmetic flaws get touched up, loose items get fixed or replaced and the car is given a once-over to make sure the sea-crossing didn't do any lasting damage. (Even if your car is strapped down inside a container, in a 20ft ocean swell it's going to get knocked about).
The coolest thing about this whole process is that some manufacturers allow you to track the progress of your build online. Some marques, like BMW and Audi, even have customer options where you can pay to get hands-on with the assembly of your own car, so if you fancy joining the production line for a day to tighten some bolts and add some internal parts - that's an option too. Expensive, and only for the true car nerd with a lot of money to burn, but an option nevertheless.
For us, we're just waiting for the car now. There will be a followup post when it arrives.
The build sheet is the extremely verbose version of what you chose on the website or at the dealer when configuring your car. So for example you might have chosen a winter package that had heated seats. On the build sheet, that will be broken down into assembly codes for all the components that go into that package - the seats, controls, wiring loom - everything. Right at the bottom of the sheet - in some cases - will be a huge barcode. This has no relevance to you as a buyer, but it's the code that identifies your car to the factory.
Once the time comes for your vehicle to enter production, the factory has a copy of the build sheet attached to the engine, suspension parts, chassis (if there is a chassis) and all the other components. At each station on the production line, the barcode gets scanned and the assembly worker knows exactly what has to go into the car in front of them at their station. The robots know if bodywork needs to be cut differently, or doors needs to be changed (3 door vs 5 door etc) and the paint shop knows to prepare a set of body panels in your chosen colour. Eventually all the different parts of the car come together in final assembly and if everything worked, all the barcodes match up and they end up with a single, finished car, containing everything that was on the original build sheet.
From that point forwards, it goes through engine testing, soak testing and QA, then gets shipped (in my case, literally) to your dealer. For stuff that comes across the Atlantic to the US, there are dealer prep facilities in the ports that check the vehicles over before they get loaded on to road transporters. Cosmetic flaws get touched up, loose items get fixed or replaced and the car is given a once-over to make sure the sea-crossing didn't do any lasting damage. (Even if your car is strapped down inside a container, in a 20ft ocean swell it's going to get knocked about).
The coolest thing about this whole process is that some manufacturers allow you to track the progress of your build online. Some marques, like BMW and Audi, even have customer options where you can pay to get hands-on with the assembly of your own car, so if you fancy joining the production line for a day to tighten some bolts and add some internal parts - that's an option too. Expensive, and only for the true car nerd with a lot of money to burn, but an option nevertheless.
For us, we're just waiting for the car now. There will be a followup post when it arrives.
Monday, April 22, 2013
Car Shopping Part 2.
Last week I wrote about the test drive experiences I had whilst looking around for a new car. This week I'm going to talk a bit about the actual buying process itself.
For our car, we ended up doing a custom build. Our local dealer did an inventory search across the country for us, and all the red and blue cars were too far away to make any economic sense to have them shipped to us. Plus they had extra bits and pieces and packages we didn't want or need. I don't want black, white or grey (or silver) - there's enough monochrome cars over here already. So the best option, realistically was a custom order.
You have to be patient if you're going to do this, especially if you're ordering from overseas. However that doesn't mean there isn't wiggle room on the price. Most dealers will try to tell you that when you do a custom order, you're paying MSRP or you're not getting the car. View this as the opening gambit, not the final price. It can be hard if you're a bad negotiator - I'm not the best in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but hold your ground, be polite and firm, and you will get a better deal.
The best thing to do is research the actual prices before you go near a dealer. In the US we have sites like TrueCar.com - it's been a while since I looked in Europe but I suspect the same sort of sites are available there. With a price site like this, you choose the car you're interested in and add on all the options you want - paint colours, interior and exterior options - everything. It will then tell you what the actual dealer invoice is (rather than the one the dealer will show you), as well as any current incentives to the dealers for selling the vehicle. The incentives are typically unpublished bonuses paid to the dealers for selling particular vehicles. In addition, it will tell you what the holdback is (the amount the dealer gets paid by the manufacturer no matter what price you get the car for) and in most cases you will be able to see what other people in your area paid for the car you've specified.
Use this information - print it out and take it to the dealer with you. Don't throw it in their face, but refer to it when you start talking price. Again - be firm and polite. If you're arrogant ("Don't be stupid - I know exactly what this car should cost!") then you will be paying MSRP and that's all there is to it. In most cases, that attitude will get you a hefty add-on too - you might end up paying full sticker price.
What you have to do is find the balance between how much you think the dealer wants to make, and how much they think they want to make. You'll almost never get them to bottom-dollar but 9 times out of 10, you can get the price to come down. In my case, after a little negotiation, our custom build came down to $1,700 below MSRP. That's a nice deal for me, the dealership still makes good money off me, and everyone's happy.
Be cautious of hidden add-ons though. For example my dealer told me there'd be an additional $1,350 for a ClearBra that they "put on every vehicle as standard". I'm having a custom-built vehicle, so I told them that I don't want that put on my car. It's being built for me, not for the dealership, so they can't force that on me. Look out for other things like that - paint protection packages, upholstery protection packages - these are all high profit-margin items that the dealers will use to try to increase their bottom line and don't be fooled into thinking they're worth anything; if you ever try to claim, they'll fight you the whole way and the normal outcome is a lot of angst for no payout.
The same is true for non-factory-backed warranties. They really are not worth the paper they're written on. The aftermarket warranty companies are extremely clever at getting out of claims no matter how small. The only extended warranty that counts is a manufacturer-extended warranty (not a dealer-extended warranty).
Again - be firm and polite when it comes to the upsell, and you will get your way most time. The people you're talking to are humans just like you, with families to go home to. Treat them with respect and they'll remember you. Treat them like an ass and you'll pay for it forever.
For our car, we ended up doing a custom build. Our local dealer did an inventory search across the country for us, and all the red and blue cars were too far away to make any economic sense to have them shipped to us. Plus they had extra bits and pieces and packages we didn't want or need. I don't want black, white or grey (or silver) - there's enough monochrome cars over here already. So the best option, realistically was a custom order.
You have to be patient if you're going to do this, especially if you're ordering from overseas. However that doesn't mean there isn't wiggle room on the price. Most dealers will try to tell you that when you do a custom order, you're paying MSRP or you're not getting the car. View this as the opening gambit, not the final price. It can be hard if you're a bad negotiator - I'm not the best in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but hold your ground, be polite and firm, and you will get a better deal.
The best thing to do is research the actual prices before you go near a dealer. In the US we have sites like TrueCar.com - it's been a while since I looked in Europe but I suspect the same sort of sites are available there. With a price site like this, you choose the car you're interested in and add on all the options you want - paint colours, interior and exterior options - everything. It will then tell you what the actual dealer invoice is (rather than the one the dealer will show you), as well as any current incentives to the dealers for selling the vehicle. The incentives are typically unpublished bonuses paid to the dealers for selling particular vehicles. In addition, it will tell you what the holdback is (the amount the dealer gets paid by the manufacturer no matter what price you get the car for) and in most cases you will be able to see what other people in your area paid for the car you've specified.
Use this information - print it out and take it to the dealer with you. Don't throw it in their face, but refer to it when you start talking price. Again - be firm and polite. If you're arrogant ("Don't be stupid - I know exactly what this car should cost!") then you will be paying MSRP and that's all there is to it. In most cases, that attitude will get you a hefty add-on too - you might end up paying full sticker price.
What you have to do is find the balance between how much you think the dealer wants to make, and how much they think they want to make. You'll almost never get them to bottom-dollar but 9 times out of 10, you can get the price to come down. In my case, after a little negotiation, our custom build came down to $1,700 below MSRP. That's a nice deal for me, the dealership still makes good money off me, and everyone's happy.
Be cautious of hidden add-ons though. For example my dealer told me there'd be an additional $1,350 for a ClearBra that they "put on every vehicle as standard". I'm having a custom-built vehicle, so I told them that I don't want that put on my car. It's being built for me, not for the dealership, so they can't force that on me. Look out for other things like that - paint protection packages, upholstery protection packages - these are all high profit-margin items that the dealers will use to try to increase their bottom line and don't be fooled into thinking they're worth anything; if you ever try to claim, they'll fight you the whole way and the normal outcome is a lot of angst for no payout.
The same is true for non-factory-backed warranties. They really are not worth the paper they're written on. The aftermarket warranty companies are extremely clever at getting out of claims no matter how small. The only extended warranty that counts is a manufacturer-extended warranty (not a dealer-extended warranty).
Again - be firm and polite when it comes to the upsell, and you will get your way most time. The people you're talking to are humans just like you, with families to go home to. Treat them with respect and they'll remember you. Treat them like an ass and you'll pay for it forever.
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